Nitrates & Orp readings
Posted on NI by DaveB on 2/6/2007

Hi all
Does nitates effect ORP readings. What would say 25mg/l increase in nitrates have on ORP readings for the same water sample, all others things being equal.

Best Regards Daveb

Posted by James P on 2/6/2007, in reply to "Nitrates & Orp readings"
Good morning Dave,

Yes, but not directly.
ORP reading is NET reading after all individual REDUCTIVE and OXIDATIVE effects are taken into account. You want the 'winning influence' to be oxidative. In one sense, you want to see your ponds oxidation levels say " bring it on"! to the reductive reactions.
Reductive reactions vary but they tend to have a few things in common. They burn oxygen like its going out of style and they tend to be associated with organic decomposition of one type or another.

Nitrate is the final byproduct of ammonia and as such, a rising level of nitrate means one of two things- a very over active nitrification process ( usually associated with too many fish in one pond even though the filters can manage the ammonia output) or decomposition. OR maintenance/feeding issues.

There is no way to answer your question about the rise in nitrate and a corresponding drop in ORP. This is because,( and very very few hobbyists can grasp this so listen up) ORP is not a measurement like temperature or ammomnia reading . It is a 'moving number' that is only valuable in terms of telling of a TREND in your water's oxidative potential. And as such, it is also a relative number. Relative to oxygen, temperature and pH at any given moment.

Having said that, a general statement can be made- If you have high or rising nirate level, you will likely have low or declining ORP

The remedies can be as simple as removing two fish, doing more water changes, slowing feeding, increase circulation and turn over rate, adding air stones, keeping the sump cleaner, adding a TT.

Hope this helped? JR

Posted by DaveB on 2/6/2007, in reply to "Re: Nitrates & Orp readings"
Thanks JR
I think I am getting the general idea. Interestingly enough During the summer here in the UK when the covers come off, waterfall and fractionator go on, waterchanges go up (due to increased maintenance, lid comes of trickle tower.The nitrates come down. Unfortunately the feeding rate goes up. I have only recently applied a ORP meter to the system (280mv) It will be interesting to see what it is at the hieght of the season.I may have to consider removing a couple of koi (I will admit I am overstocked). Unfortunately In my case increasing waterchanges only adds to the blanketweed problem (high phosphates in source water)

Best Regards DaveB

Posted by James P on 2/6/2007, in reply to "Re: Nitrates & Orp readings"
It will be interesting watching the trend. Just remember that a reading at 55 F and a pH of 7.2 will be different from a reading taken at 68 F and a pH of 7.8 Yet the ORP readings ( lets make them up) of 270 and 310 mV even though they are different numbers, can be exactly the same in expressing how oxidative the water is. I mean EXACTLY the same! In fact, to illustrate this I have created a table off of Albert Theil's table ( which came from a German publication) that show at a fixe PH or a fixed temperature what the corresponding ORP should be to be called 'ideal'.

Armed with that, you can appreciate that my numbers are useless for your pond assessment and your ponds numbers are useless on my ponds assessment.
Better to go out every other day , at the same time of day and in the same part of the pond and collect a reading. Note the temperature and pH as well. Then create a chart. You will then plot this graph and see the trend line. It will amaze you how the season and feeding schedule along with the activation of all life, from koi to microbe, mess with the trend line.

Posted by DaveB on 2/6/2007, in reply to "Re: Nitrates & Orp readings"
Jr
........I appreciate what you have said and so have puchased a constant readout p.H meter. I intend to maintain this at a constant 8.0.I also have a digital constant readout for temp.So am I correct in thinking that if I can maintain the ORP levels at what they are now and maintain a constant p.H then the amount of oraganics would be less.If there is a rise in temp of 10 deg C
.......I did forget to mention that I have a bubblebead on my skimmer(Which is where most the waterchanges are carried out) and due to only having 1 bottom drain the waste does take a while to get to the bottom drain.Due to the above conditions I beleive that an ORP reading of 280 is the best I will do and therfore expect it to slowly fall.

Best Regards DaveB

Posted by James P on 2/6/2007, in reply to "Re: Nitrates & Orp readings"
Dave, the water temperature, unlike an aquarium setting, is a variable in the koi pond. This is because oxygen saturation levels will be different and diectly linked to water temperature ( warm water holding less oxygen than cooler water).
Unlike text book chemistry, where pH is the main and most powerful variable, a koi pond will also be HIGHLY dependent on oxygen levels. This is actually very logical if you consider the amount of oxygen spent in chemcial reactions carried out during mineralization for instance. Not to mention koi's use of oxygen and the nitrifier's need/use of oxygen.

So in some cases, 280 will be a really excellent reading and in others, an average reading. The good news- its never a bad reading!

JR

Back to Articles